Jumping Jehoshaphat Wetherholt

214TAB

Nate: Hello everybody, and welcome back to talking about Birds, the only Cardinal podcast that should be the name of an Atlanta Sports podcast, covering the Atlanta Hawks and the Atlanta Falcons. My name is Nate Heininger and I am joined by my co-host Ben Ska.

Ben: Wow. That was good. I liked it.

Nate: If you have an idea for the opening bit, text or leave us a voicemail at 8 4 8 48 birds. And thank you to Charlie for submitting that one via text message. look, I, I actually got a lot of really funny opening bit suggestions this week. Very, uh, on like on time topical. clever, very funny. But I chose to do this one because I really want to highlight to our listeners that it doesn't have to be good to make it on the show. So thanks again to Charlie

Ben: You use that one because your perceived quality of that specific intro is so low that you, by using it, are there for displaying. Displaying how low the bar is to get into this.

Nate: I'm just saying if you're out there and you're like, eh, that wasn't that funny, just go ahead and submit it. You know, you never know what'll make the cut.

Ben: Fascinating.

Nate: Yep. thanks again to Charlie for, uh, submitting that. I mean, I think it was incredible

Ben: Do you?

Nate: I do think that this should be the name, hold on. Should be the name of an Atlanta Sports podcast

Ben: Yeah,

Nate: covering the

Ben: no, I heard it the first time.

Nate: I think we should be, I mean we we're talking about birds, but we only got one bird team here. They got two.

Ben: That is true. I guess I will say that I know nothing about either of those. I could not name a player on either of those teams, a single player. So it's, it's gonna be hard.

Nate: Let's see. Falcons, Matt Ryan.

Ben: Is he still playing?

Nate: I have no idea.

Ben: No way. Maybe.

Nate: maybe this is good.

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: hand bone Googling current roster of the Atlanta Falcons. I assume

Ben: Yeah. I, uh, I, I don't know. I don't know, ball, that's, I'll just leave it there.

Nate: you go to basketball games sometimes, don't you?

Ben: Yeah. You know, we haven't been to one this year. The nuggets are good. Not great. We'll, probably, I think we're gonna go very soon though. Um, but yeah, I like a little bit of the, uh, the old leather pumpkin, as we call it.

Nate: Yeah, everyone, everyone calls it that and it makes perfect sense to call it that. So I, that's why everyone does it.

Ben: You throw the pumpkin in the basket. Two points, baby, sometimes three. Um,

Nate: sometimes one.

Ben: I've seen that too. Yeah. It's a little, the, the sport's confusing. 1, 2, 3, like, how many points are you, it's the same basket.

Nate: See, I know. I seriously, someone needs just like get Rob Manfred in there. He's fixed baseball.

Ben: There's no home runs at other sports. You know,

Nate: what if we, what would we should include? Home runs in every sport. I think you're totally right. This is good.

Ben: like no one's hitting No, no balls are going out of the stadium in any other sport. There's, there's not a, a fan. I guess you can, like, you, like LeBron could sweat on you at a NBA game if you're in those really expensive seats right up front. But you're not like

Nate: we wish he would?

Ben: I I, I, yeah, we do. But like you could go to a baseball game and catching Yvonne Herrera home run or a foul ball or whatever, and that's not crazy.

Nate: Yeah, I've actually lamented that on this podcast before. I think it's absolute bullshit that basically every other sport, if the ball or whatever piece of sporting equipment goes into the stands, you're expected to give it back. I don't think that's how it should work.

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: you, if the football goes into the stands, you should get to keep it.

If the soccer ball goes into the stands, you should get to keep it. I think it's insane.

Ben: Yeah. Finders, keepers, losers, um, you know, that's not your ball.

Nate: uh, I mean, everybody should be like that guy who got the, uh, JJ Wither Holt home run, which is go into a part of the stadium that you're not allowed to go grab it and then immediately book it for the exits.

Ben: We couldn't agree more and try to sell it for money.

Nate: Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, if you go to like, uh, soccer games, uh, I've been to, as you know, several city games. Uh, they do warmups where they're just kicking the ball at the goal. And it's frequently going into the, uh, stands. Um, it's, it actually feels like dangerous back there because these guys kick the ball real hard.

Um,

Ben: Oh, so hard,

Nate: of the risk, you should get to keep it.

Ben: you know, uh, how soccer. You know how soccer is so good. Um, the, uh, Denver, uh, just had a women's major league soccer team. I don't remember the name of the league. Obviously I'm locked into soccer, especially locally. Uh, but they just set a record. I think it was like 60,000 people or something like that, attended a women's MLS, uh, game.

And the game ended zero zero in a tie.

Nate: It's,

Ben: Soccer sucks.

Nate: it's the worst part about soccer. I've

Ben: It's the worst. It's, it makes it not even real to me. Like, why did we even show up? What a waste of time. And of course, they have a record setting event at the inaugural game. It's at Mile High Stadium. Everybody's having a great time. And you go home.

Zero. Zero. That is so stupid.

Nate: I do think every sport should end, like I think one-to-one is fine. Two to two, any sort of ti Like I understand that sports have to have ties, um, but I think zero zero should be illegal in sports. There should have, someone should have to have, had to score at some point in the game for, for the game to end.

Ben: It's unwatchable. That, that's another great thing about about baseball. There are no ties. There will never be a tie.

Nate: Yeah. Um, a apparently we heard last time we talked about this exact same topic on the, on this show. 'cause we've been doing this for four years now. Um, we learned from Akira our on the ground, uh, uh, UK correspondent, um, that that is really the platonic ideal of a, of a soccer mat, of a football match is the, the zero zero game where both team plays perfectly and there's just no one is able to score. Um, I can under, I think what they're trying to, like, the, the parallel there would be like a one nothing baseball game where it's like. Pitcher's dual and everybody plays perfectly. And like one guy got ahold of one, um, maybe like the, the Roy Holiday Ma uh, Chris Carpenter game, you know, from forever ago.

That was like a incredibly tense, uh,

Ben: Sure.

Nate: baseball game that ended one to zero.

Ben: Right.

Nate: but there was still one. also, uh, my experience with zero to Zero, uh, American soccer matches is that it's mostly just incompetence bouncing around and nobody's actually able to do anything successfully, which is not satisfying to watch.

Ben: No, no. I am no. I have nothing more to add other than I'm, I'm a hater and I'm fine with that.

Nate: well, we all know that. Um, but I'm really glad that we've started this episode the first week of baseball by talking about, uh, soccer and basketball.

Ben: Charlie's fault.

Nate: you to thank you to Charlie for this incredible, incredible opener. Um, Hamon, how you feeling? We've got five and a half games in the books.

Uh, the Cardinals are in the middle right now of a tight match against, uh, your New York Mets. Um, how you feeling?

Ben: Baseball season, baby. I feel great. I got, uh, I got tickets to opening day on Friday. Um, I actually, I just bought, 'cause great thing about living in Denver is that tickets are cheap. Just bought some tickets for the Tuesday game next week. Um, so I already got some baseball games that I'm, I will be attending here very soon.

It's unseasonably warm, so the weather is looking really great for both of these games. Um, yeah, I feel like we're in it right now. Like I, I. Like for the, I don't really care about this as being a fan, but for like the purposes of talking about, uh, baseball on a podcast, I do wish we could like fast forward to a month so I could stop saying like, you know, extremely sa small sample.

Yeah, yeah. But you know, it also like the fun parts of this early part of the season is like Joey Weemer is leading the league in F War right now. Um, and we'll probably never ever say Joey Wheeler's name on this podcast ever again, but we can say it right now.

Nate: He, he is like, it is post, post, post hype

Ben: Sure.

Nate: You know, may, maybe he's real, maybe this is his, you know, one, five good games and Yeah. We'll, we'll completely

Ben: I, I heard somebody talked about like, you know, like just talking about small sample size, like any baseball player can do anything for 60 at bats. Like any baseball player can look like Babe Ruth for 60 at bats or whatever it might be. And we're like, obviously, well within that threshold. And, um, I think there's like a fun aspect to the beginning of the season and all the craziness and like looking at the war leaderboards and you know, who's, who's on top, who's struggling and uh, you know, having players.

I think Harper just hit his first home run, like people getting off the Schneider, whatever. From a power standpoint, like I love all this early season stuff,

Nate: Shay Laniers all which great name by the way. One of the more fun ones to say, I just love the word laniers,

Ben: Ears.

Nate: is, uh, at five dingers already, you know?

Ben: He is, he is like just made his season in the first week if he just continues. And has a normal season after this, he has made himself probably a ton of money in arbitration very, very quickly.

Nate: Yeah, there's a lot of that sort of fun thing where it's like, okay, if he just hits, uh, for the rest of the season, a home run once every week or whatever, he's on a pace for like a 40 home run or 50 home run or whatever it is, because he hit five in the first four games. Um, and yeah, I mean, we're gonna overreact to this episode to a bunch of stuff.

We over, we were on a C 70 show, on Friday night, which was a ton of fun. Hopefully you followed up listening to him with us last Thursday and listened to the follow through on the episode Friday night where we, uh, you know, had the thrilling conclusion to the game that we played, which we kind of buried the whole thing.

I, I realized after we were done recording that, I think I ran away with that game, but we never actually said the final score, the points or anything. But I think I won by a lot 'cause I got the, um, one of 'em I've already forgotten all of.

Ben: Yeah, I think I won because, you know, I probably did. You're such a jackass.

Nate: one that was five points. Um, how long the game is gonna be. I got how long the game was gonna be

Ben: Nobody. Nobody cares. Nobody cares.

Nate: cares, but I do. And so, uh, and I got the a BS challenge one, right? or no? No, it is, uh,

Ben: Yeah. Yeah. Let's, let's, yeah, let's cut this up. Let's make sure that we get this right. Take as long as you need, Nate. This is good.

Nate: I just wanna make sure that I got a little,

Ben: I know, I know. I know what you're doing.

Nate: the glory

Ben: Yeah. No, it's good.

Nate: Thank you.

Ben: People like hearing that.

Nate: Thank you. I think so too. Um, so should we, should we get into to some, uh, early reactions

Ben: What do you wanna talk about? What do we got?

Nate: well. How about, let's just start at the Cardinals are three and two.

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: we'll see how this game ends, but either way. Uh, worst case scenario, the Cardinals have opened against one team that could be good, and another team that should be one of the better in the league. They're opening the season, 500 at worst, if not four and two, uh, which I think a really good outcome, uh, considering the competition and considering expectations for the season. So let's just start at like a high level. How are you feeling about the team? Basically one week into opening, sea opening, uh, uh, the opening week of 2026.

Ben: Yeah, I think the team looks like, and it's always like easy to put these type of narrativey things on, uh, club when they're winning more games than they're losing. But I will say that they just look a little looser. They look very athletic. Um, which. You know, is kind of not, I, I guess not what I really expected.

The, the broadcast has said this a couple of times, but they're the youngest team in MLB, and I don't think I knew that for a fact. Obviously I knew that like jettisoning players, like Nolan Ado and Miles Michaelis, um, would make the team younger, but they're the youngest team in MLB. Um, and the fact that they, so the fact that they're the youngest team in MLB.

The, what the projection systems are saying about them and what we think that their future status is going to be. Like, the way that the, this team will grow. And then looking at the way that you are seeing, or, or sorry, looking at the progression from Gorney and Walker and seeing Walker or, uh, sorry, JJ Weather Holt, just kind of step in and look like a big leaguer.

Um, you know, I think a couple of weeks ago we talked about how I'm feeling even more and more excited about 2027, and I think the Cardinals are gonna ramp up sooner than later. Um, first week of balls really got me thinking that that's right. Like we are, we're not ready yet. The bullpen, you know, there's been some issues, there's some chinks in the armor, but like, we're gonna look young and competitive and athletic maybe really, really quickly.

Nate: Yeah, I think just that, uh, what was it, sixth inning of home opener alone, really, you know, you really try not to overreact to one game. You really try not to overreact to one inning. Uh, but just that one inning alone really. Impacted my expectations for this season. I didn't think that they had that in them this year.

An eight run inning coming immediately after, uh, a really frustrating, difficult, um, you know, Babi to death inning that looked like was going to be a real sour opening day. Um, you know, a bad loss on a lot of stuff that looked like, you know, they just a lot of bad luck and, and you know, the inability for the bullpen to get a strike out. Um, and all of a sudden they put up eight, have a couple other comebacks or at least really competitive losses where they did lose. And you're like, okay, this team is, at least offensively is, is gaming already? playing, they're putting together at bats right now. It doesn't feel like there's very many holes in the lineup, but of course that's where you have to do the small sample size stuff.

But everybody's coming in and making very good at bats. I saw somebody say, um, that this team is constructed in a way where on the offensive side, it's a very young that you can be excited about that looks like the future is near. And the pitching side looks like a team constructed to lose games to get a better draft pick. And I don't agree with that entirely on both sides, but it is funny how in just one week I was coming in, like I think the pitching's gonna be okay. It's the offense I'm worried about. And right now I'm like, this lineup's looking pretty

Ben: Well,

Nate: young. You

Ben: I mean, Gorian Walker coming out and having a WRC plus above 100, that alone really makes this lineup look a lot different like that. Those are two, not only are they like the only true sources of power on the club, um. Like there, there are two huge potential holes, like third base and right field.

You need offensive production from those two. If those guys just bang, this offense is probably good. Like if, if Walker and Gorman actually fulfill the promises that their prospect rankings, um, um, uh, we're, we're sending, like, this team is really, really fun.

Nate: or hell even like 75% of, of what their prospect, you know,

Ben: You're talking to like 60, 70 grade power guys. If they just click, you know, we're looking at 60 ish plus homers that we were not accounting for. No.

Nate: Yeah. Um, and you already mentioned it, but like, I don't think we can be this far into the episode without really reiterating just how good and fun JJ Weather Holt has looked. I mean, obviously a home run game one every, he, he basically hasn't looked, um, overmatched yet. I'm sure it'll happen. He, he had a couple strikeouts in the game yesterday.

He will certainly have games at some point where he strikes out three or four times as he just gets played by MLB pitching. But across the board, he's looked great defensively, he's looked good. He had, you know, an error, but that's gonna happen. So, uh, he has basically come right in like what everyone was hoping, uh, which is really exciting. And now we're starting to get the rumors. The rumor mill is churning that the cardinals are actively in discussion with an ex for an extension. Which exciting. Um, there's a bunch of these have just been announced in the league. We'll talk about that later. Um, but to me this has been one of the open questions about this new front office. Do they have a desire to do this? It's been generally considered to be a smart move. I mean, it's backfired a few times around the league, but, um, you know, a lot of teams have been built around these really good extensions of young players. And IC either didn't want to do it or never truly believed in his own, in his prospects, which actually probably turned out to be true.

Um, but either way, apparently Hein Bloom is, is, uh, is in on it and wants to extend. Jj, how do you feel about it?

Ben: Yeah, I mean, I think we've been asking for young players to be extended for four years, like as long as this podcast has been.

Nate: Yeah,

Ben: like I think Mason Wynn has been an obvious candidate for an extension, um, for a while now. I think we were discussing even extending him before he came up. Um, and he still seems like the most obvious candidate to me.

Um, I would love for JJ Weather Holt to happen. I think just like it, I think it would really signal to the fans that we're serious. I think that there is a deal that would get, would, would scoop up J's Arrb beers in a free agent year or two that would make sense that he would sign, that would put the Cardinals in a good position.

And I think like you just have to trust that this kid, I mean he is everything. Every, he has everything going for him. He is solid defensively. He has a good eye. Uh, he seems like a smart, normal person. Like he's not a, a crazy guy. Um, like this is the type of person that you would want to invest in. Um, it doesn't surprise me that they're having this conversation.

The only thing that surprises me is that we like, haven't had this conversation before and the Cardinals has failed to do it. Or like you said, maybe just had lack of interest or lack of faith, or lack of funds, or the ability to think, you know, 30 days ahead of themselves or whatever it might have been.

But I could not be more on board with, at least, at least JJ getting locked up for 7, 8, 9 years, whatever they might be talking about.

Nate: just like you've been saying for years, lock him up.

Ben: Lock him up.

Nate: Um, I.

Ben: emails first, and then lock 'em up.

Nate: And the Yeah, of course. Um, yeah, and I think it, we'll, I think we'll talk about this a little bit more later too, but I think it makes sense to at least see it at the big league level before going into extension talks. Although, uh, I imagine has increased his, uh, his cost, um, by, uh, you know,

Ben: So I, I get that. But like if you really, if you are Heim, bloom and goons, you know, any of 'em, and if you really feel like you've learned a so much more about JJ Weather Holt in the past five, six games that he isn't, you're now willing to make an offer than, like, that doesn't make sense to me either. Like, you, you know who this guy is, if anyone knows who this guy is, it's you.

Um, or you should have done things to get to know him better. And, uh, I, I don't really buy that. I think like. Like what? The only thing that could have happened is if he came up and like, shit his pants in his first at bat and they're like, you know what? This kid might not be ready. But I I don't think there's anything you can really learn about any baseball player in five games.

Nate: been, there's been what? Like major league baseball players in the history of MLB. It's something like that. At least one of 'em has to have shit, their pants in their first game,

Ben: Um,

Nate: don't

Ben: well, I don't know about first game, but I remember when Archie Bradley shit his pants while he was in the middle of a relief appearance. Um,

Nate: on field. In game. Just in the history of baseball.

Ben: yeah, yeah, yeah,

Nate: I'm just thinking, game, daddy, look what I did.

Ben: yeah. That, that's how your children talk to you. Is that what, what just happened there?

Nate: What's up?

Ben: Nothing.

Nate: Um, Uh, it's had to have happened.

Ben: Well, he didn't do it.

Nate: That's which is great.

Ben: Which is great.

Nate: clear.

Ben: Yeah,

Nate: Yeah. I don't know. I agree with you, but I also think like for every person who looked like the perfect prospect and seamlessly eases into the major league level, there's a hundred that completely falter at the big league level and take years to progress normally.

So wanting to see the, the approach good at the, and have even a week of success is like, okay, he, he's not going to collapse day one.

Ben: I get where you're coming from. But prospects that are coming up in 2026 that like were high level collegiate athletes and blazed through the mi, like young guys are different now than they were even 10 years ago. What,

Nate: You know, the younger generation,

Ben: are you doing your, your Gen Z thing?

Nate: they don't wanna work.

Ben: All right. Do do your five minutes.

Nate: I, you know what it is,

Ben: Okay.

Nate: these days,

Ben: Had nothing else.

Nate: their iPads.

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: Yeah. Look up, look around the world. You know what I mean?

Ben: You wanna keep,

Nate: a podcast.

Ben: okay. You done?

Nate: No. Yeah, I'm

Ben: Okay. Do you know that point I was trying to make before you did the whatever?

Nate: stopped

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: 'cause I was thinking about what I was gonna say.

Ben: All right, well we can move on then. J's here.

Nate: Should we hit the other couple transactions before we go into, uh, the rest of the, the Vince's making a weird face at me

Ben: Fuck is wrong with you, dude. Lock it in.

Nate: I am locked in.

Ben: You

Nate: the one making

Ben: suck today.

Nate: Whatever. You suck. I'm on top of my game. I've been killing it ever since. The intro,

Ben: Cardinal sent right-handed pitcher Hunter Dobbins on a rehab assignment, uh, with the Memphis Redbirds, um, yesterday. We're excited about that. They also placed right-handed pitcher. Matt, push hard, push hard on the 15 day il retroactive to March 30th with right knee patellar tendonitis. Nate, I'm calling Phantom Iel right here.

Phantom Iel.

Nate: What? Yeah. Well, because they can't, there has no options,

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: is a, a rule five guy, so he has to be on the team or we lose him. Uh,

Ben: Start the investigation.

Nate: yeah. get my little, uh, glass. you think so? One bad, one Bad inning is enough for them to be like, all right buddy. Pack it in.

Ben: No, I think that they have some more development that they want to do to him. They let him do, go out and get his token, uh, relief appearance. Oh, now he's going down and he is gonna be down, uh, rehabbing in AA or aaa, and they're going to re rework some stuff on him, uh, before he comes back up. I a hundred percent believe that.

Nate: I honestly hope you're, you're right. Uh, it'd be nice to see the Cardinals organization, um, pulling smart, uh, you know, rural Bindi moves like we've seen some of the other, uh, some smarter organizations do. Um, so I hope you're right. And he didn't look great in that first game,

Ben: He didn't look great. And I alm I guarantee you, in a week or so, they're going to say, oh, we're gonna take it really slow with Matt. We're gonna let him, you know, let the knee get healthy. We're not gonna rush him. Oh, and he's also, uh, working on a new pitch. Um, so, but uh, anyways, so Sard goes down. Uh, the Cardinals recalled, uh, right-handed pitcher, Gordon Cefo from the Red Birds to take that spot.

Um, obviously we know Cefo pretty well. He, now that he's a, uh, reliever, he throws high nineties, um, and, and looks pretty strong. He had a nice little, uh, uh, Cardinal's 2026 debut, uh, last night and so far so good.

Nate: he did. But the real highlight from his debut was the Mason Win play.

Ben: That was an incredible play. That was the best play of the year so far. That was, Mason Win is a very good shortstop.

Nate: Yes, yes. Absolutely. Um, yeah, I, uh, I imagine gce, you know, barring poor performance, which is of course what you could say for everybody, but I assume if he's performing well, he's just up for the rest of the year.

Ben: Yeah, I, that would be a little developmental win, right? Like actually getting a cardinal prospect to be effective in your bullpen. You know, especially with like the mediocrity that we're seeing in our current bullpen right now, or at least some of the guys in our current bullpen. But, um, yeah, excited to see him.

Um, and like I said, we'll, we'll follow the push hard, hard beat. See what, see what ends up happening with him. But my prediction is, uh, this is, this is bs, but I'm okay with it.

Nate: Yeah. Um, and as you mentioned with Hunter Dobbins on a rehab assignment, I'm, I'm really hopeful that we see him get a start pretty soon. Um, I think we need to start that wagon going soon of getting all these guys up and getting them starts and, and his six man rotation piggyback starts, whatever it is. Um, let's get these guys going.

Ben: Be very curious how they decide to handle that. If it is the six man rotation, if it's you just have one guy come up for one start, go back down just to, to like it, it's almost like a pseudo six man rotation to keep guys healthy and to ke like you have. Um, you know, we, we've talked about this before the season started, but you have a lot of guys who have never thrown.

Like 150 innings. So you're going to have to get creative and I think starting it earlier than later makes a lot of sense. And you have Dobbins and Fitz who you can leverage their options, you know that they're major league ish ready, you know, to what degree you can argue, but you can bring up those guys and have ostensibly a seven man rotation in some type of flexy.

Weird, you know, how, however you wanna make that work. And I, I hope the cardinal, I, I think that the Cardinals are smart enough and dynamic enough, um, to, to flex that muscle if, if that makes sense.

Nate: Yeah. And, and we've, we're seeing some other teams do it right now too. Like the Braves are doing it with, um, I don't actually know how to say his first name.

Ben: Didier Didier,

Nate: Did Didier. Yeah. Um, where you're just planning like, all right, this guy's getting four innings. This guy's getting four

Ben: puff Diddy.

Nate: Yeah, I know. Huge fan you are. did you see the thing, um, the Giants, uh, coach? Uh, new or no?

Ben: Oh, uh, VI Vital, I dunno. Some he, some Italian last name. It's like Tony Vital or something like that.

Nate: He's talking way too much about Kanye West in an interview. Uh, uh, like he, he, he, yeah, like strange guy, but he sure is a good musician. You're like, uh, I don't know if we should be labeling the man who was selling swats to cut t-shirts as a strange guy.

Uh,

Ben: He is a strange guy. Uh, his name is Tony Vitello.

Nate: yeah. Okay.

Ben: pretty close. Um, no. Did not see that. Missed that one. Recommend if you're a public figure. Just don't bring up Kanye West right now.

Nate: Yeah. Just, you know, just let it

Ben: It's free not to.

Nate: let 'em go.

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: Um, yeah, I'm, I imagine piggyback starts are an interesting, and it's also kind of fun to say, isn't it?

Ben: Just piggy.

Nate: Piggyback?

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: Yeah.

Ben: Yeah. Nate, I'm having fun.

Nate: Uh, let's talk about Jordan Walker.

Ben: Let's talk about Jordan Walker. Um, I don't know what to say other than I guess I, I feel the need to eat a little crow, um, because he has come up and. Somehow looked completely different than he did in spring and all of the last two years. Um, he has walked and struck out three times so far, which that that might be the most shocking stat.

Um, I think that he has looked surprisingly good on defense. He's made some great, he's charged some balls in really well. Um, I kind of forgot how good Jordan Walker's arm is. He's made some really aggressive, nice throws. Um, and the swing has, that's, that's been the big thing. Um, the swing looks different.

I, I know there's been a lot of posts online, people comparing his stance in his swing and stuff like that. But looking under the hood, um. First off, he has 14 contact events. So far we, you know, caveat, caveat, caveat. We're talking about an extremely small sample size, but who gives a shit? 'cause we have good news to talk about.

He has 14 contact events so far. His average exit velocity on those events is 97 miles per hour, which is.

Nate: good.

Ben: He's averaging a hard hit ball right now, which is crazy. The launch angle is the best in his career so far. It's sitting at 13 and a half, which is great. What is crazy though, is the biggest change that we can see, and this is brought to you by, uh, Statcast and, uh, fan graphs.

They have a bunch of cool new swing analytics tools, is that his ideal attack angle is at 65%. His career is 45%. If you don't know what ideal attack angle is, it's the angle or it's the percentage of swings that exist in the five to 20 degree range. AKA barrel city. When you're swinging at that angle, when you're attacking the ball at that angle, you are more likely to hit a barrel.

A barrel is like basically the ideal hit ball. Um, it's hard hit at a, I think it's a five to 29 degree angle, and mostly those often result in home runs, and I think the batting average on barrels is like 800 or something. Like it's, it's very high. He is doing something of many things that he has never done before, exercising patience.

Um, and, and by the way, he's still swinging the ever-loving shit out of the bat. He is averaging this fastest bat speed so far at 90, basically 79 miles per hour, which is elite. It is top of the league elite. Um, but he's also, he has a much better attack angle than he is had in the past almost by double, um, everything.

He is looking really, really good. I don't know what else to say. Obviously he hit a home run. Um, he is looking, he is looking like a baseball player. It is very early and everything could go wrong and the league will adjust to whatever he's doing right now, and there will be some dark times for Jordan Walker this season.

But you cannot argue that he has made a actual change. Somewhere in his game, it's his swing pass, his decisions, whatever it might be, all of it together. Maybe it's just him getting older. He looks like a better player.

Nate: It'd be the, the drive line whole thing, you know? Uh, it is always surprising to me and such a good reminder that spring doesn't mean anything.

Ben: It means nothing.

Nate: now that said he had that really good game on the last game of spring and then came into the season and has carried it forward. So maybe what he had been working on all Spring finally clicked in that last game or two games, uh, and is carried in.

Um, but. Maybe he's just a guy you hear about it all the time, uh, where it's just really hard to really focus into when the games don't matter. Um, you know, that's not necessarily the best way to be, but there is a reality to the competitive nature of these dudes, um, that they need it to be like full game, full stakes.

Everything is, is uh, you know, real now, I don't know. I haven't heard anything about that from him, but it could be the case. But either way, uh, it has certainly been, I think, the most fun part of this opening season. 'cause I, I've said this before and I remember it. You know, he, he has had, reason he is still around at all.

He has had moments at the big league level and in fact, you know, his entire rookie season, he was pretty good. Uh, and there were little bits and pieces last year where he was pretty good too, where it, his. He, the game is just so much more fun when Jordan Walker is playing well. Um, and they're winning games right now, uh, partly because of him, and he looks good in every single at bat.

So it's just been more fun. These five games have been more fun because Jordan Walker has been good. The question will be, can he can, can he sustain it? Can he do it for more than five games? He got the day off today. Uh, you know, which probably makes sense.

Ben: to,

Nate: in those wins. Take a day off and come back and do it again tomorrow.

You know?

Ben: to stay positive. I don't know, like we started the show saying like any baseball player can do anything in 60 plate appearances. He has 20 plate appearances right now it's super small sample size. But did we see him go on a run a, a week long run of this type of performance last year? Maybe. I don't remember it off the top of my head, and I feel like maybe we would, but he, I mean, he ended last year with the 66 WRC Plus.

It was a rough, rough year, no matter how you look at it.

Nate: worst players, one of the worst players in baseball last year. Um, to me the big thing is, is the, uh, launch angle that you talked about. 'cause a lot of his outs this week too were in the air.

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: You know, even when he was, I, I, I, we, I, I don't know exactly how we would look this up, but I suspect some of those good runs from last year was a lot of those low line drive singles getting through 117 mile per hour, double down the line that nearly killed the third baseman. Um, that sort of thing. We didn't see a lot of driving the ball, uh, like we're seeing right now.

Ben: That's the big difference. Again, it's a super small sample size, but he has a almost 300 iso, he's slugging 5 88 if he can. Just 13 degrees is not a great launch angle. Like people like Nolan Ado is sitting like, he's like 35 or 40. Um, so it's not tremendous, but it is significantly better than what he has averaged in the past.

And he hits the ball so fricking hard that Yeah. If if that line, if that 117 mile an hour ground ball is just 10 or 15 or 20 feet in the air, you're talking extra bases. You're talk even home runs can happen outta that. 'cause he hits the ball so damn hard. Yeah.

Nate: needs to hit it, not straight down. You made the Yandy Diaz comparison. Uh, when we had, um, Ben Clemons on and Yandy Diaz by the way, having a, a killer start to the season. We on cardinal pitching and has continued in to the next series. Um, but you can see that where if you just hit the ball hard and even if it's just straight, not even necessarily up, but you can do some real damage. So, it's fun. You know, who also has been fun is. Burleson, what do you, what do you think about this? What's going on here is, is it a next level? Is it a hot streak? What are you feeling?

Ben: I don't know what to say other than like, and I've, you know, uh, we're a couple of sickos. We, we watch, I, I watch too much baseball. Um, not just the Cardinals and nobody from, from my eyes has just seemed like they're on. Everything to start the season, like he is a pain in the ass to pitch against. Right now.

He is taking low and outside breaking balls and, and clubbing them the other way down the third base line. Um, he is pulling pitches. He is stubborn. He's walking. Um, I think he's hitting with a little more power than I expected. Just like the ball off the bat is, is like, it's, he, he just looks locked in and you, I don't know, like, you know, he's 27.

He is, you know, getting into his physical prime. He, he understands the league. I think, you know, he's about as hitter as a looking, as a looking player as the Cardinals have had in a long time. Like he just may, maybe he is jumping up the next le to the next level. I still worry that he has problems against like lefty pitchers, but a lot of lefty hitters do.

And that doesn't mean he's irrelevant. The other thing I want to say and, and give credit where credit is due, I think that he's looked really strong at first base so far, and I think he's looked better, um, in the first week of games than I remember him looking at any other time. Uh, the way that he is been, uh, I think he's made a couple of throws from first base that have looked good.

His, uh, awareness has looked good. Um, I, I feel like, uh, maybe he's ascending, maybe he's just hot right now, but, uh, I think he looks really, really good to start the season. I'm like, I'm buying stock in Alec Brisson right now.

Nate: It, it's said a lot, you know, it's not a unique take, but there's something to be said about knowing what position you're playing coming into the season and getting an entire, uh, you know, spring training and, and all of that to prepare to be a first baseman. He's known that for months now. Um, so it's good to see that he is clearly comfortable in the position and like you said, I think he's looked pretty good. Yeah, I think the only question for me is like, is this just starting hot or is this an actual, uh, like leveling up of his skillset? Because if you remember last year, like. some real slumps and then he goes on a tear and like completely fixes his season line hits like four bombs, which changes everything.

And, and then he would slump again, and then he would go on a tear. And that's how he ends up with like a two 80 batting average or whatever. 'cause at times he, you remember he was pushing 300 for a little while and then would go on a, uh, he would, it would, it would, uh, he would slump like most guys do, right?

So that's just the question is because we know what we look at it. Last year at one point, he's like, from a WRC plus standpoint, he was one of the top 25 hitters in baseball last year. Like he is a competent hitter. Um, the, the thing holding him back from like true stardom has been power. Um, and maybe he's taking that age 27 step up, which is, you know, many people say, uh, like basically the age 27 season is the, is the prime power season. different. Everybody's body is different, but it's like 26 to 28 now is what most people call like the prime, and he's right in the middle of that. be.

Ben: Also he has, again, small sample size. I'm gonna stop saying it, I swear I just have to, um, he has four walks against one strikeout.

Nate: Yeah.

Ben: could, you know, adding power to his game would be amazing. Um, adding discipline to his game might be just as incredible. You think about if you're adding, you know, if you're walking, he, he's walked through his career almost 7%.

If he can get to the 10, 11, 12% or even higher walk rate, power can often come with that because you are getting yourself into situations where pitchers are either gonna walk you and they know that you're not going to swing outside of the zone. Therefore, you're going to get a better pitch to put your a swing on.

Um, maybe, you know, one thing begets the other, but maybe, you know, there is a version. It would not shock me, um, if Alec Burson turned into a 30 homer. Three 50 plus OnBase percentage type, first baseman. And you know, we're off to the races and maybe we're talking about an extension with old Burley over there at first, you know, at, at the end of this year.

But, um, he has come out hot and like a, it's also just the look, he looks hard to get out just the eye. It's like, what do you do to Alec Burleson right now to get him out? Other than, was it Kodi Senga that just, it was a pumping 99 mile an hour fastballs that, that can do the trick on a lot of guys. But outside of that, he's tough.

Nate: Yeah, I'm not ready yet for the 30 bomb thing. I, we need to see him hit the ball harder, more consistently. But, uh, he certainly has looked great out of the seas out, out of the start. Um, I think one more guy from a looking great, or at least better outta the gates that we gotta talk about. Uh, I don't know if you've been applying your creams.

I, I've certainly, I'm nearly out, uh, ham bone because, uh, my gour mania right now is just, it's spreading, it's bubbling. It's really rough, frankly. But, uh, I I'm enjoying it too, a little bit. You know what I mean? Uh, Nolan Gorman hitting the ball hard and drawing walks. What are you seeing out of Nolan Gorman so

Ben: I, I, I am gonna burst your bubble, Nate. He has not drawn a single walk yet.

Nate: No, not in my, not in my reality.

Ben: He has

Nate: I thought he, I thought,

Ben: no, he is got zero walks and five Ks.

Nate: All right. Well, I take it all back. Uh, but he is hitting the ball hard. That one I can tell you.

Ben: You cannot argue that he is hitting the ball hard. Um, he has got great launch angle. I think that his approach, you probably feel like he's got walks because the approach has been, I think, a lot better. Um, but I could definitely go for some more walks. I could get, definitely go for, uh, few less strikeouts.

That being said, if he wants to strike out 25, 20 7% of the time and hit Homers at the clip that he started the season, like that works, we can, we can take that player all day and plop him over at third base, which by the way, I thought he's looked just fine over at third base. So far, nothing, like, nothing glaring, uh, has jumped up at me, but no, I, I think that he has looked like, um, oh, and Nate, you know what?

You are right. Technically, uh, uh, as we are talking, the game that is happening right now, he walked, so he has one walk on the year.

Nate: Apology accepted. Uh, he did boot a ball in the game today too though, so, uh, you know, we'll, we'll,

Ben: I guess when you're talking about Nolan Gorman, everything is true. It's, it's, it's all happening at once. But, uh, I, I think what you're getting at, like, he does look like an actual big league player, which was a, like, that was a question coming into the, the year with him and Walker with, are they major league hitters?

Can they fake it at least? Um, and I think he's faking it at the very least so far. He is hitting the ball hard and, uh, he's not an automatic out. So yeah, I'm, I'm having fun there. Wa there's something about him and, um, maybe it's just like the, the time off and I, I just hadn't been thinking about it. And maybe this isn't an original thought or anything like that, but man, he has not come off as a super athletic player.

Um, even when he tags a ball, like, I don't know, he's kind of clunky. Um. But, uh, that doesn't really matter. That's just aesthetics. Um, I, I've been pretty happy with his performance so far.

Nate: Yeah, well, he kinda looks like a high school bully who like, you know, is, is beefed out of his own comfort level, um, and moves as such. But when he hits the ball, it can be fun.

Ben: It can be fun. It really makes a thud, doesn't it?

Nate: Uh, who else do you want to talk about? Ham. And we've been really hitting the highlights here.

Ben: Yeah. I thought it was fun that him, him and Urus, you know, they're kind of third base is kinda leading the way for the power on the team so far, which like, did not think that, that I would be saying that even with only one week of baseball, um, didn't think we were gonna be looking at third base as a, a source of power.

Uh, but yeah. Why don't we talk about, um, the pitching a little bit. I think that, you know, through the first turn of the rotation, obviously we saw Dustin may make his cardinal debut. Which was not fantastic. Um, I think we saw Andre Ante, who really got by on the skin of his teeth, wasn't fantastic. Been pretty impressed with Lior.

But, uh, funny enough, Michael McGreevey arguably had the best start of the first run through the rotation. Um, and I thought he looked great. I like, I don't know what to think about Michael McGreevy, and I don't know how to project him because he is kind of like, there's no flash. Um, but he stays competitive.

He stays in the zone, he's not getting destroyed, and so far, so good.

Nate: Yeah, so I like. the best start, uh, well maybe today's liberator start would, would argue against the Mets. Um, but outside of that, I think is clearly that the, that McGreevy's start was the best from a pure results standpoint. Um, something to keep an eye on, though of his velocity was down,

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: um, multiple ticks depending on the pitch. And so that about? You know, he was getting results with it, that's usually not what you're looking for from this type of guy. Um, so was it intentional to have better control and, um, that was part of the game plan, or is he still heating up coming into the season? Um, if it's the latter, then I'm by it.

Like he had these results with that drop in velocity. If it's the former, I worry about long-term success, uh, with the velocity that he was putting up. Um, but obviously great opening to the season for him.

Ben: Yeah, it is. He is like so kind of boring

Nate: Yeah.

Ben: It's, I don't, I don't know what to think. And Yeah, like, you know, to illustrate Nate's point, his fastball usually has averaged around 93, hit 91. Uh, this, this week, uh, his cutter was down, sinker was down. Yeah. Across the board. They were all significantly slower.

Um, but he still had success against an offense that isn't totally worthless. Um, so yeah, I don't, I don't know what to say. He's also like, there's just nothing about it that you would really like, like I said, there's nothing you would really project wildly about it. There's no crazy strikeout numbers.

There's no crazy ground ball numbers. I, I guess if he does anything well, it's that he doesn't walk people very well. Um, and that is inherently valuable. But, um, yeah, I don't know. I don't know how to,

Nate: to keep it, just something to keep an eye on. Like

Ben: yeah. I.

Nate: like the, the starting pitching this run through was not bad. Um, may was pro had probably the worst results, although maybe some of the better stuff,

Ben: I'm not worried about him yet.

Nate: No, me neither. Um, Lior the most like doing what he's gonna do.

Um, it looked like what we hope that he'll look like. Um, to me that was kinda like, at least game one was kinda like, if this is what not perfect Lior looks like, then I think we're in for a pretty good season. We've been recording during the Mets game, so haven't really been able to watch him pitch. Uh, obviously we know that we're at the point where we know how he did, but I don't know anything about it.

Um, so I, I can't say, but the results were pretty good. So feeling pretty good about Lior. McGreevy with the velo being down, ante, uh, being ante basically, and the results being in his favor, uh, one way or another. Like the, ultimately I left saying there's ample room in this rotation. Uh, we're gonna be seeing hopefully fits and Dobbins and all these other guys probably pretty soon.

And if there is uh, a Achilles heel to this fun, young, exciting team right now, it might feel like it's the bullpen after this first week. I still think it's this starting rotation. Uh, and that has been what has sank them the last three years in a row, basically. And I don't think we are in any place different now.

Ben: No. And just to say his name 'cause we haven't yet, Kyle Leahy had a pretty rough turn as well. Not sure how to feel about that.

Nate: That slider though, like, you're like, okay, I see it. You know, I see what he could do.

Ben: Yeah,

Nate: Um, one of the better of all the pitches, by all the starters this week one of the best pitches thrown by any of the starters,

Ben: yeah.

Nate: Um,

Ben: But boy oh boy, did he get, he just, the results were not there. Um, speaking of somebody who had poor results and we've seen. A tremendous amount so far for so few games is Ryan Stanek, who has pitched three and a third, um, in these first handful of games and has as, uh, many strikeouts as he has. Walks four for four, um, has gotten torched a little bit, has looked wild.

The velo is there. He's hitting 99 regularly. Um, and that pitch probably plays, I am surprised at how often he's been used so far. Um, I think that speaks to like the Matt Passard and, and stuff. Like, we don't really know what we have and I think Ali Marmal is trying to win games, sort of, kind of. He's, he's trying to win.

Um, but Stanek has looked really wild. I mean that in like all senses of the world. Like he's, it's wild that the, all of it's wild. Also, we were talking about this in the bird score. The guy could use a brush, just a one brush once in a while, I think would do a lot of good for him.

Nate: It's, I'm just imagining the St. Louis humidity in a couple months going to be frizzy.

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: I'll say what I said on uh, C 70 show is that in just these four innings alone, you can see why he was a closer at the major league level, uh, at multiple different points in his career and also why the cardinals got him for nothing,

Ben: Yes.

Nate: in the off season.

So, I have been surprised by his usage as well. I don't think that was the plan for the home opener. Uh, I think that the bullpen just got thrust into duty after that horrible sixth inning and everything got pushed forward. I could be wrong there 'cause he obviously has been used in high leverage spots after that, but I don't think they were intending for him to be the ninth inning guy in the, in that game. Um, and he seemingly already now is sort of in the seventh inning spot now, which I, I suppose makes more sense. but there's always the argument that the cardinals are managing for the trade deadline and they want, like the ideal would've been he came out the ninth inning, gets like 15 saves by July 31st and nets them some sort of valuable return at the trade deadline.

Ben: I don't think that's impossible yet. I mean, it's, he's a reliever, you know, like the, they could flip on a dime and he could be nails, maybe he finds something, um, maybe he can locate the fastball. Um, but yeah, early going, it's pretty rough. Um, but it makes sense. It makes sense. And also like he's a 34-year-old, $1.5 million reliever.

If you want to be, um, you know, you want to treat him like a rental car and drive the shit out of him while you're taking care of your other longer, uh, the, the assets that you have for a little bit longer, that, that also makes sense to me. It's, it's crude, but it, it's, it's smart.

Nate: yeah, yeah. Uh, we mentioned it earlier already a little bit, like the bullpen has felt rough, but I'm not too worried about it just yet. Matt Swanson looked pretty good again in the, in the game, uh, last night. You know what? He, he gave up six runs in his first basically inning of pitching. Um,

Ben: Gonna take him all year to get his ERA down from that.

Nate: know it really, I was thinking of that too.

He gave up something like. total runs last year. And so it's given up half of his runs that he is gonna give up this year. So, um, you know, relievers ERA is like the worst metric to look at for them. Uh, I think he'll be just fine. Jojo's looked pretty good. Riley O'Brien has looked great. so I'm not really worried about the bullpen, but I expect that we'll be swapping these guys,

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: front part of it.

The Brules, the the Soos, well, maybe not Soriano since he's also no options, but think we'll be swapping these guys out a lot and I'm not worried about it just yet.

Ben: No, but it does. It does mean a tougher watch, but that's okay.

Nate: Yes. Yes. Um, alright, anything else you want to talk about from this opening week

Ben: let's move on. Baseball's here, baby. I.

Nate: well we're going to talk about the upcoming series. Hit a Little News and, know, do a little game here at the end. Uh, but before we get to that, we wanna remind our listeners that this show is listener supported on patreon.com, patreon.com/talking about birds. You can find all of the different ways to support the show, but supporters at any level get access to our private Discord server. We call it the Bird Scored. You've heard us talk about it on the show a bunch at this point is a essentially a private chat server for listeners and supporters. And we've got some other, uh, writers and podcasters in the group there as well. Uh, it's a very, very active place. It's a, it's a fun. Place to hang while watching a game. Uh, news is posted there. Um, and if you just want to talk baseball with people and talk to actual humans and not, uh, whatever the hell the rest of social media is at this point, it's a really good place to go. Um, and you can also feel some satisfaction in supporting a wholly independent, uh, podcast.

Um, so talking about birds.com or patreon.com/talking about birds. Uh, we also appreciate anyone and everyone who leaves us a review on their favorite podcast platform. It really does help. And of course, tell your friends and tell your family. Make sure you follow, subscribe, all of that. We appreciate you. Uh, ham. And where else can people find us online?

Ben: Yeah, we're on all the socials. You can find us on Blue Sky Instagram, TikTok. You can watch this episode on YouTube. If you're one of those people that wants to watch us, you can do that there at youtube.com/talking about birds. Uh, you can find all the podcast information t-shirts and more@talkingaboutbirds.com.

You can email us at talk about birds@gmail.com and of course you can call us and send and, and sorry. You can call us and leave a voicemail or send us a text message to 8 4 8 48 birds. That's 8 4 8 4 8 2 4 7 3 7.

Nate: 8 4, 8 48 birds. right. Ham bone. After the Mets game, the Cardinals have an off day. Um, and then will, uh, head to Detroit play the motor city kitties, the tigers themselves. Uh, how you feeling about this series?

Ben: Well, you know, we're missing Taric. Scobel, which is good for the Cardinals, but bad for you and I who like watching. Guys like Terry Scobel pitch. Um, but I think we're gonna, you know, we're still gonna have a good time. The, the tigers are pretty good. Uh, they're starting rotation, at least the Cardinals are going to draw from, or Valdez the, the new guy in town, Jack Flaherty, we remember him and Justin Verlander is back.

So that's the, uh, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, um, matchups. And, you know, outside of that, this team is young and still very interesting. Kevin McGonigal's gotta be the, the story here though, he is kind of

Nate: Yeah,

Ben: one of the best prospects in baseball. He is proved to be an extremely difficult out in the very young season.

He is fun to watch if you guys have not had a chance to watch him play or, or just watch an app bad, that series that he had against the Padres earlier, I mean, he is legit. He, he is. He's a tough out. He, he is an interesting, he's kind of like Dustin Pia, but maybe a little more Toolsy is like the way I would describe him.

He's very impressive. Um, and outside of that, you know, they brought Glab, Torahs back. Riley Green is still kind of locking down their, their, uh, uh, lineup and they kind of good players all up and down. Um, I think the only weak spot they really have, in my opinion, is their bullpen. Um, but bullpens, you know, like we always talk about they, they could turn on a dime at any point, but I like this team.

I think it'll be a good matchup for the Cardinals. I think this is a better team than the Cardinals. Um, not unwinnable, but like I said, Valdez, Flaherty and jv. Um, and that's, you know, missing their number one is not an easy assignment.

Nate: Yeah, I think it's a pretty well constructed team. They're not completely clicking just yet. That lineup is beatable. Um, they obviously have some very high highs on it. Um, but the, the bottom half of it isn't really producing just yet. They have some holes, I think they are beatable. Um, but that pitching is gonna be, um, is pretty good.

Like the Cardinals have faced some pretty good pitching to start the season already. Um, but I don't know that we seen a Valdez yet.

Ben: No, I, I would say today the Cardinals are going against, um, Freddie Peralta. Maybe he's been, he's, he's probably around like the same tier as Valdez, but yeah. So close. It's what, you know, pulling hairs. Yeah.

Nate: Pulling hairs.

Ben: not splitting hairs. That's

Jesus. Yeah.

Nate: ow.

Ben: Ow this hurts.

Nate: Hey, hey,

Ben: Um, Javi Baez, I, I watched a highlight of him this morning. He took a kind of hanging curve ball right down the middle, and then Mike Soroka threw another curve ball that was about a foot and a half outside and he put his a swing on it and missed. Um, so we'll have that to look forward to as well.

Nate: uh, you love, gotta love a Javi Javi Baez, uh, highlight reel of Bad strike ads.

Ben: Um, I'll, I'll shout out Dylan Dingler too. I think he's, uh, massively underrated, great

Nate: to your name

Ben: s to name and like becoming one of the better catchers. I feel like nobody's talking about him, but he's, he's very good.

Nate: Yeah, Dylan Dingler.

Ben: Yeah, it's a good name.

Nate: And a Dingler Dinger.

Ben: Dylan Dingler Dinger.

Nate: after that the Cardinals head to your nation's capital to play. Washington Nationals, what, what are we gonna see out of this

Ben: Oh, I've, I've got good news. So, uh, we are going to see in the, uh, the final game of the three game set. So it's gonna be Zach Lettel for game one, Kate Coval, who I think is pretty good. Kind of an underrated starting pitcher for the Nationals game two. And then your best friend, miles MICUs is gonna be closing out the game.

Um, and you know, it's gonna be on his home turf, so, you know, the, the ball's really gonna be in Miles' Court. I have a feeling, and this is not just me hating on miles, I have a feeling that he is going to get blown up in that game. I, I just can, I don't know why,

Nate: can,

Ben: but I feel it.

Nate: just get some catharsis from the last two seasons? Like we're, I think I'm, I'm done shitting on, on Miles as a cardinal. He had some very good seasons with us and, and got us through some tough times. But those last two years,

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: uh, it would be satisfying

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: Cardinals to get to hit some of those 88 mile per hour down the middle fastballs.

Just a few, you

Ben: Uh, middle, middle two seamer. Here it comes. Um, I agree outside of Miles, I mean, this is really the Joey Weemer show. You know, he's one of the best players in baseball, obviously. He is their current center fielder. Um, somehow they only have him hitting eighth right now, which is a crime. Um, but, uh, Joey Weemer, he's also got guys like James Wood, uh, CJ Abrams is still batting around there.

Luis Garcia Jr. Who I think is a pretty solid player. Um, and I guess the only other player I really want to say, uh, their, their name out loud is Andre Grino. Remember him? He is over there holding down the bullpen, kind of slotted towards the, uh, lower leverage there. But, uh, yeah, you know, this team is like.

It's a team that failed to launch that is now rebuilding again. So like the Cardinals really should go into here and, and I, I think that they're a far better team than the nationals. Maybe not far better, but they are a, a, a decidedly better team than the Nationals. So I expect a nice series from the Cardinals.

Nate: Yeah, I, I agree. I think that James Wood is probably the best. The highest upside of any

Ben: Sure,

Nate: on either team right now. But he has a whole host of strikeout problems in any individual game. Just like CJ Abrams is incredibly high ceiling, but any individual game can strike out four times.

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: Um, and our team is known for its strikeouts.

Uh, so that'll certainly

Ben: We really have not been striking anyone out this year, which is crazy because of the emphasis coming into the off season, but small, small sample.

Nate: The current rotation is not the future

Ben: No, no, it is not, I.

Nate: Yeah. All right. Let's wrap up with the, or let's move on to some league news.

Ben: The, uh, Mariners signed Colt Emerson to an eight year extension for $95 million, uh, before he has e even made a single at bat or had a single at bat in the big leagues. Um, obviously the Mariners think pretty highly of him. They think that his power, it's come along. It looks like he's making a move to the outfield.

Um, we'll see how long that lasts with, uh, I know JP is, is locking down shortstop for them, or he's injured right now, but he is their, their shortstop. But, uh, anyways, kind of a wild move. A guy, uh, I believe this is a record setting deal for somebody who's never played

Nate: Yes.

Ben: the majors, um, but they extend their guy, Nate.

Nate: Yeah, we, I mean we already really went into this discussion at the top of the show, so don't need to fully rehash it. Like always a little surprised at the extent of a deal like this. I do think this will probably work out for them. He certainly seems like we talked about with JJ Weather Holt, like of the prospects that you feel comfortable spending big in, big on and locking in. He's a good bet. Um, but I was still a little surprised. Um, you know, Mariners have a lot of prospects. They have a lot of guys that they like, uh, and kind of surprised that they've made a choice to say he's one of our guys for the future already. You know, Cole Young was another guy that people felt pretty similar about and he really struggled out of the gates and he's having a good start, but we'll see, you know, so I am surprised, but good for him. And, you know, probably good for the Mariners,

Ben: Mariners are, they're,

Nate: him.

Ben: they're having a lot of fun up there right now. I mean, that's, that's an easy, I watch a lot of Mariners because they're a fun team to watch and, uh, yeah, we'll see if it works out for them or not. Um, but you know, there's, if you're a Mariners fan thinking of him and Julio and Cal together for the next decade or whatever, like, that's, that's pretty exciting, especially if this kid works out.

Um, less exciting news for Cardinals fans, the Cubs and Nico Horner agreed to a six year extension worth $114 million. Um. We, we talked about this months ago at this point, about the Cubs entertaining, or seemingly, at least the media was reporting that they were entertaining the idea of moving on, uh, from Nico and, and trading him to another team.

I never thought that made sense. He's kind of like exactly, he's like the perfect, this version of the Cubs player. Um, he is so good defensively. I think he's underrated offensively. He can steal a base, maybe the best defensive second baseman in baseball. Um, and they lock him up, um, for the foreseeable future, I, I think a great move for the Cubs and, uh, it's too bad.

Nate: Yeah, I'm a little mixed on this one, at least compared to your, uh. Glowing review. I, I worry a little more about his, if I were a Cubs fan. As a colonel fan, I hope that this is true. That, um, he may be ultimately just sort of an empty batting average, good defensive second baseman. And while it fits their current team comp pretty well with guys like Bregman and, and some of the power around, and Michael Bush and whatnot, like, doesn't make sense five years from now when he probably isn't as fast as he is now, and really has zero power.

So, you know, he, he could very easily become a two 60, uh, three home run, 20 soul and bass type of guy, which is valuable, you know? So I think

Ben: What,

Nate: could be pretty low, but

Ben: but I feel like what we've learned is like nobody gives a shit about the back end of these contracts. It's all about the first three years, and they'll figure out what to do with them at that point. I agree. Um, when Nico Horner is 36 or 37, he's probably not going to be a great baseball player, but they don't care about that.

Nate: It's for the next couple

Ben: Yeah,

Nate: it out.

Ben: yeah. Um, the Orioles have extended Shane b five years, $68 million. It's really going around Nate. Um, but I like this, the Orioles, uh, they traded for this guy. Obviously they like him. They then extended him. It's what probably every Orioles fan wanted to happen. They're extending a pitcher who they think has high upside, um, so good for them.

He's only 26. Uh, he will turn 27 later this year. Probably get a handful of really good years out of him during this deal. I, I like the move.

Nate: yeah. I thought the trade was good. I think the extension is good. I think Shane Baz is good. Or Baz. Um. That could all be wrong if he's not. So it, you know, definitely all banking on upside here. Um, but, uh, you know, we, we talked with C 70 about these guys who like clearly can strike out a ton and just haven't put it all together, and then they just need that one thing to click, and all of a sudden they're, they're elite. I think he's in that camp. So if you're gonna gamble on a starter, like certainly like this, this archetype,

Ben: Um, Jason Hayward announces his retirement. Um, shout out to a king.

Nate: I, I mean, you know, it's so easy and so fun to kinda laugh at him at this point. I think that's mostly just, uh, and I'm speaking to myself for myself here. It's mostly just coping, uh, with

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: Um, but he, uh, know, the reality is he was the centerpiece of one of my favorite cardinal teams of the last 25 years.

Ben: Yeah. We wanted him back.

Nate: I was all in on theEnd Hayward,

Ben: I.

Nate: um, you know, beat. So, uh, I was a huge fan of Jason Hayward and then he left and became bad and won a World Series and all that. So, you know, whatever. Good for him. Good. Ultimately a very successful career, um, and again, is, he was the best player on the 2015 St.

Louis Cardinals, so,

Ben: He had his best year, uh, as a Cardinal. Um, yeah, that's, uh, he was only 25 when that happened. Well, that is so long ago. It was in 2015 that that happened. All right. Uh, final piece of news, MLB uh, players Association a announced that they amass a war chess of more than $500 million, uh, for both the 2024 and 2025 years.

The players agreed to put aside 100% of their licensing revenue into this quote unquote war chest. Um. I don't know how this makes me feel for the possibility of games happening in 2027, but I'm gonna take the optimistic outlook here and I'm going to say that, you know, you can cover a lot of salary with that money, and that means you can wait out a lot of games.

Maybe this will make, or this will encourage the owner group to ownership group to uh, um,

start the conversations in good faith.

Nate: well, everything right now is posturing. They released that for a reason. I assume it is for the purpose that you, it's have outlined here. It is essentially intimidation. Hey, look at us. We have, we have power too.

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: and that's where we're at. We're going to get continued escalations of Uh, we are in charge, um,

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: uh, and different forms of that over the next year, and we will see where it goes. I, yeah, I, I am choosing to be optimistic as well. I maybe naively trust baseball to recognize that they are as popular now as they've been in a very long

Ben: People like a, b, S. Let's keep this going guys. Come on.

Nate: it's, uh, it's argue, it is basically the behind it is passed ba it has retaken the lead over basketball. Um, football still has a huge lead, uh, in American sports, but baseball is like number two and rising. I hope that both sides will recognize this. I think this one is going to be interesting hand bone because I, I believe the, the point, the linchpin of the entire, uh, thing is going to be something that the fans actually agree with the owners on. So we will see how this goes when, by that I talk about a, I mean a salary

Ben: Yeah,

Nate: Um, so,

Ben: we know that is a total non-starter for the union, so enjoy baseball this season, everybody.

Nate: it's going to be tough.

Ben: Yeah,

Nate: to be tough. Uh, we are pro worker, so pro player. Um, but this is going to be an interesting one,

Ben: yeah. Yep.

Nate: I don't think many people are going to recognize the nuance there.

Ben: All right, Nate, that's all I got.

Nate: All right, ham bone, where we're gonna, uh, wrap up this episode by covering a beat that you and I find very, very important. That is The Strange Foods at Barks Beat. Uh,

Ben: Hmm.

Nate: another episode of League Choose So Ham Bone, I am sharing with you a link to our favorite, definitely written by humans, uh,

Ben: Oh,

Nate: reporting, uh, website

Ben: you're linking me dog. Yeah.

Nate: dropping you a link so you can look at this

Ben: Okay.

Nate: of me. And we are going to render some judgments on what Sports Illustrated is calling the most absurd new ballpark food

Ben: I was, I was reading about the, the first item, uh, 'cause it's coming to Coors Field, and I'll tell you what, no spoilers, but I'm excited.

Nate: Two items on

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: at Coors Field. Why don't we step into the first one here. This is the Rockies

Ben: Can I be a, can I be a huge wet blanket first? I think all of these products are built by are, are brought to us by Aramark, which is a shitty company that delivers shitty food. So even though these things might sound good, they never are. And it's so disappointing. Fuck you, Aramark. All right, we can go

Nate: Yeah, I think that's, uh, I think it's reasonable to be mad at everything right now. So the very first one, though, this is near and dear to me, ham Bone, and I gotta say, I'm, I'm hoping to come to Rocky's field this year with you and go to some games, uh, and this, uh, what, whatever, you know what I mean. Um, and this one is a combo of two of my favorite things. That is the Rocky's Pizza Donut, which seems to basically be a donut, a glazed donut with, uh, pizza toppings on top of it, sauce, cheese, pepperoni, and some sort of green sauce, which you don't typically think of, uh, for pizza.

Ben: it looks like a pesto e type thing or something.

Nate: It does. What's your take on the pizza donut? You

Ben: I'll say

Nate: you, would you get one of these?

Ben: even with Aramark being responsible for, there's there, how could this be bad? This is going to be delicious when pizza's on a donut. You can have pizza anytime, Nathan.

Nate: The slogan writes itself.

Ben: Yeah, no, I, I will absolutely get these this season. Maybe I will get them on Friday. Um, cannot wait. Uh, they'll probably be disappointing, but I mean, and they'll probably be like 75 bucks, but

Nate: Uhhuh,

Ben: on a donut. Let's go.

Nate: uh, in moving on to the Royals, they have off, they are offering now a beef Wellington hot dog. so our UK listeners shout out to AKI again, may find this appealing. Um, are you, have you had a beef Wellington before?

Ben: I actually, I had a beef Wellington at Gordon Ramsey's restaurant in Vegas. This is years ago for a work trip. And guess what? It was absolutely fucking delicious. It was incredible.

Nate: things,

Ben: That's it. What he's famous for. Yeah. Yeah,

Nate: Yeah.

Ben: yeah. I got some sucker at a, a work event to pay for it. It was great.

Nate: Hell yeah. Uh, so do you think this foot long hot dog with, uh,

Ben: it looks,

Nate: Chipotle ketchup and yellow mustard on it will be good.

Ben: it looks like a hot dog that got ran over. There's no way. This is good. Um, it's, it's sad. Just gimme a dog. What are we doing?

Nate: Yeah, it looks like a pig in the blanket with a bunch of shit on it. Um, all right, next one. The rocky ggl.

Ben: yeah.

Nate: familiar with this one?

Ben: I was, uh, this was a topic of conversation at my house, as Nate may know, and I, I think, I don't think our listeners know, unfortunately. I have a weird. A versions to mac and cheese. Um, I don't eat it. I don't want to get into it, but I don't eat it. Um,

Nate: his worst takes.

Ben: yeah, I, I know that I'm right, but this is a two foot long hot dog that's covered in mac and cheese.

That, to me sounds absolutely horrible, but I can see why some sickos out there are, are lusting after the gla zilla. I will say the name is good. It is whenever a company, like a lot of beer companies do this, they make you say something absolutely like so stupid sounding when you're ordering their thing.

I, I kind of appreciate it.

Nate: I'll have, uh, one mommy's little helper, please.

Ben: I need that to wash down my gla zilla.

Nate: Um, yeah, I like mac and cheese on a hotdog. Steve's hotdog's a, a local spot, uh, most are probably familiar with it. They, they sort of pioneered that in St. Louis and I've enjoyed it, uh, many times. The thing that stands out to me on this one is it is a two foot long hot dog, but the hot dog itself weighs one pound, which I think that must be a thin guy in there. You know,

Ben: Yeah,

Nate: one pound total.

Ben: I, I will tell you, I, the last time I had a Rockies dog, I got food poisoning, um, while I was in a four hour car ride, uh, down to Southern Colorado. And it was one of the worst experiences I've ever had in my life.

Nate: Yeah, that sounds horrible. Uh, well, you know what, well, it certainly won't make your stomach feel good, is the Oriole's big scrap burger.

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: Um, have you ever heard of Scrapple?

Ben: So I have only just heard of that because the mo the, the current season of Top Chef is happening in this part of the country, and they just had a challenge with Scrapple. And I will tell you, I'd eat some, um, but I wouldn't look forward to it, but I, I would eat it. Yeah.

Nate: a fried piece. This is their words, fried piece of mushed together pork scraps.

Ben: Some places call it pork mush. Pork mush, something like that. It is. I only know this because of the most recent season of Top Chef. It's disgusting.

Nate: Yeah, well this is basically a burg, a double smash burger with some scrapple crammed in there as well.

Ben: Yeah.

Nate: Um, so, uh, you know, if you, what, what, where is that? That's, uh, Orioles. So you can watch that as, as Shane Baz is blasted. Uh, and your entire hopes for the future of the Orioles go

Ben: Yeah. And then,

Nate: clog your art, art, uh, arteries

Ben: and then go blast the toilet.

Nate: Yeah. There you go. Uh, we'll wrap it up. Hand bone here with the Marlin's machete. Are you looking at this?

Ben: This looks d delicious. I mean,

Nate: you, uh, take a, a shot at describing what we're looking

Ben: so it looks like the longest taco I've ever seen. It seems to be stuffed with like cilantro, onions, and steak. And you get some green salsa and peppers on the side, but I mean, it's just a big ass taco. And, uh, it says two foot long taco. Um, yeah, Oaxaca cheese, pepper sauce, SASA verde, cilantro, homemade flour tortilla my ass that wasn't made at anyone's

Nate: is served here on a wooden plank, but it is almost certainly gonna come in some sort of shitty little trough, uh, that is going to just, uh, get thrown away with probably half of this whole thing. Uh, 'cause I can't imagine it's going to carry very well. Um, but I don't know.

Hamon, what do you think? Are these all, you getting all these, these all snacks? What are you doing,

Ben: I think I'm eating every the, I mean the wellie, that's just a waste of good filo dough or whatever the fuck they're, uh, wrapping that in. Um, I would eat the gz if I wasn't a weirdo that had this stupid version that nobody else has. Everything else I would try. I'm actually kind of excited to try, I'll try scrape at some point just because I've just now, uh, like it's in the zeitgeist, Nate, where people are talking about it.

But, um, I don't think it's gonna be good. It's,

Nate: yeah,

Ben: like the stuff that they couldn't throw into a hotdog, you know, it's like, this is, this is low tier meat.

Nate: But you deep fry it. Put it in between two smash burgers and it's a texture thing more than

Ben: I'm on board. Yeah.

Nate: Yep. All right, well that's gonna do it for this week's episode. Um, if you, uh, uh, want to support the show, don't forget to check out patreon.com/talking about birds, uh, or just talking about birds.com for all of our links and everything.

We'll be back next week. As always, thank you again for listening. It's been a fun first week of Cardinal Baseball, and I'm hoping for a fun second week and beyond. Uh, and we'll be bringing it to you every single week. So thank you again. We'll be back next week, and as always, Cardinals all.

Ben: Jordan Walker.